Don’t bite more than you can chew — Barde tells El-Rufai

Yakubu Umar Barde, Minority Leader, House of Representatives, representing Chikun/Kajuru Federal Constituency of Kaduna State in a recent media interaction with journalists at the Correspondents’ Chapels, Kaduna, addressed several issues in Kaduna State. Our Regional Editor, Northwest, DOMINIC UZU was there. Excerpts.

HOW would you score Governor Nasiru El-Rufa’i of Kaduna State?
El-Rufai has very good intentions for the state. But my prayer is that he shouldn’t bite more than he can chew. If you listen to El-Rufai, the projects he has in mind are very laudable. He has been carrying us along. Whenever he is in Abuja, he calls us for a meeting, whether you are in APC or PDP, and tells us his policy blueprint. The budget that was presented in Kaduna State, for the first time, we are part and parcel of the preparation of the budget. He brought it to us in Abuja. We sat down and he told us what he intends to do and how he intends to achieve it. My fear is the money or revenue that will be used in implementing this budget. Knowing who El-Rufai is, his capacity to generate revenue just the way he did when he was in FCT by the formation of edges. If he can do something like that in Kaduna State, we will not have any cause to regret. The unfortunate thing for El-Rufai is that developmental decisions are not populist decision. Lots of people have been complaining because salaries have not been paid. If we will suffer for two weeks, then, enjoy for 10 years, we better go through the sufferings now. In some local governments, the number of ghost’ workers were more than the genuine staff. Some people just fixed 10 or 20 names and collecting salaries without working but many unemployed Kaduna youths are there, they don’t have means of livelihood. I’ll support this government for anything it will do to sanitize our state. Kaduna State is for all of us irrespective of the party you belong. If the governor is doing well, we should say it and if he’s not doing well, we should criticize him. I score El-Rufai above average.

What type of punishment would you recommend for public officers who loot public treasury?
I’m a believer of the fact that people should be punished for offenses committed. I also believe that punishment should be segregated in such a way that it should be commensurable to what you have done. We are living in a very funny country where people steal N1,000 and are put in jail for years, while some people steal billions and use that same billions to escape justice. That’s not good enough. We have started discussion on this matter. I and some members in the National Assembly are of the belief that Nigeria should have special court for corruption cases. If you look at the quantum of corruption in the country today, it is alarming.
Look at the quantum of money and the number of people that are involved in the arms deal. You have not gone to the ministries and states yet; and it is only ICPC and EFCC that are to do all these jobs. The work is overwhelming. People will like to use the legal system to delay justice and that’s what is happening today. So, why don’t we have dedicated courts to try all these corruption cases so that justice could be dispensed quickly? I’m aware of former governors who have been in EFCC net and have not been to courts for the past 8 years. It does not encourage the young people. It rather encourages them to steal. If you can delay justice for 10 years, that’s a good one because some people would have died in jail. I know of some people that died even while their cases were still on trials. So, we really have to put our heads together. Corruption, hunger or poverty does not know party, tribe or religion. We must, as Nigerians, take a very bold stand. If someone steals from N1 million to N100 million, they should cut his hand. There’s nothing wrong so that when we see you on the street, we know that you stole and that’s why your hand is cut. And those that steal in billions should be hanged. Confiscate their property and hang them. We know how much Nigerians are suffering today. People are living in abject poverty, no good healthcare. You can image this issue of arm deal. It’s so painful; most of us here have lost loved ones and somebody feels this money should be diverted for something else. It’s something that’s unimaginable. If I’m a judge and such a person is brought before me, I’ll confiscate his property and make sure he’s killed also because the blood of the people killed in the war front he bears a fault to it.

Former President Olusegun Obasanjo has consistently described National Assembly as thieves. What is you take on this?
I had one-on-one interaction with former President Olusegun Obasanjo. We were in the plan, he said we’re all thieves and I said, Mr. President, the National Assembly does not prepare the budget but the executive does and brings to us. And when the executive brings the budget to us, National Assembly does not execute budget but the executive. Now, is it the person that executes budget that is corrupt or he that just passed it. This question he couldn’t answer. The issue of corruption should not be looked at from the National Assembly alone. If you have a gathering of 360 plus 109, we can’t all be saints. There are good people in the National Assembly that are ready to work for this country. In my sojourn in the National Assembly for 14 years, I’ve met very credible Nigerians. I’ve met people that are also with questionable character.
I’ve never done any contract. We know that most corruption come from contracts that are inflated, over bloated. So, if I don’t do contracts, I earn my salaries and allowances and you tell me I’m corrupt, it is funny.

You have won the House of Representatives for Chikkun/Kajuru Federal Constituency the fourth time. What is the secret?
Nigerians like sincerity. In anywhere you find yourself and someone ask for something from you, if you know you can do it, just answer, but if you can’t be honest enough not to tell him come today, come tomorrow, because at the end , the person will not be happy. So, the secret of my success is sincerity and doing the needful. What is the needful? Today if I have N20, I am ready to share N10 with members of my constituency. I have done lots of projects. During the administration of Chief Olusegun Obasanjo, members were given constituency projects worth N10 to N15 million annually. What was allocated was just a monetary figure; it was left for you to know the most important needs of your constituency. Then, you look at the amount allocated to you; if, for example, the amount allocated in a year is say N30 million, there’s no way you can build a school worth of N40 million because it means the budget cannot carry it. So, it is your decision to say okay I want boreholes to be dug in my constituency, then, it means the project will go to the Federal Ministry of Water Resources. This is how its’ done. During the Obasanjo administration we had problems because he strongly felt that we should not touch the budget; we should pass it the way it came. So, most of the projects that were there, at the end, members’ projects were not implemented and there’s nothing you can do about it. If you go and meet the minister, he will tell you I’m building a dam of so billions somewhere.
So, members of the National Assembly have this problem yearly and I took it upon myself that this must be explained to people because at the end the people will tell you they’ve not felt your impacts. And what the people want are projects. So, today I’m advocating that whatever way you want to look at it, there’s need to make provisions for National Assembly members for projects in their constituencies because Nigerians want to see physical projects. People don’t care whether you move motions or not. There are some constituencies today that the Federal Government has no roads or presence there. Now, if you’re member representing such people, what are you going to tell them? When we make adjustments Nigerians will says members of the National Assembly are padding the budget, we’re trying to put projects in the budget. We could put it there but we’re not the ones to implements it. Some ministers could be kind enough to ask you if you have a good contractor who can do the job, but that does not mean it is automatic the contractor will get it. Some of us shy away from even producing any contractor because we don’t want more problems. At the end if you as a member of the National Assembly suggests or give the ministry a contractor to do the job, the contractor, maybe your friend, at the end, is not be able to implement it, you can’t even look into his eyes and say I’m disappointed. You cannot discipline him. So, I’ll tell the minister just do the normal thing, the bidding whoever qualifies let him go and do it so that I could look into his eyes and say this work is not up to the standard.

Gov. El-Rufa’i and Senator Shehu Sani have been on each other’s throat since the 2015 general elections, what is your view on this?
If there is a fight between a lawmaker and the state governor, it has lots of implications. The implications are just that projects that are supposed to be discussed with the governor such as Federal Government projects, which is the responsibility of the National Assembly members, to ensure where some of these projects are to be located, are not discussed. Members of the National Assembly also have the responsibility to lobby Mr. President on behalf of their people to have more federal government presence. In a situation where there’s a fight, then, you’ll see a gap and it will affect my state negatively. I’m sad but as a politician, I am happy they are washing their dirty linen in public.

It appears Kaduna is turning into one party state, the PDP expected to provide opposition is almost dead, what is happening?
Sometimes, when you are in opposition, like the PDP now in opposition, you need to lie low and re-strategise. That is what we are doing. We have been having meetings; I won’t let out all our strategies. What we’re trying to do now is to wait for the Governor to fix the next Local Government election. Once he fixes the date for the local government election, that is when you will know what PDP is up to. We are going to spring surprises in the next local government elections. That is when we will prove we’ve been doing something.